Forum:Collection of Q&A's to & from Rafe de Crespigny

Forums: Index > Sānguó Dào > Collection of Q&A's to & from Rafe de Crespigny

This is a list of all question we asked Professor Rafe de Crespigny and the answers he gave us. These answers can be used as a source or reference for our articles, if you like. If you asked a question to professor Rafe and wish to share his answer, forward them (both the A and the Q) to Zantam03 and he'll add it to the list.

2 May 2010

Question One, about the Twelve Regular Palace Attendants

In 185 A.D. twelve eunuchs were enfeoffed as full marquises, however so far I can only find 11!; Zhang Rang, Bi Lan, Duan Gui, Guo Sheng, Li Song, Zhang Gong, Xia Yun, Sun Zhang, Song Dian, Gao Wang and Han Kui. I really want to know the twelfth, but can't find it :-( I've searched through an online version of HHS using the Chinese symbols of Zhang Rang and the searchfunction of my webbrowser and then translate it with Google Translator :P, but in HHS 78/68 I could only find 11 names. I was hoping you could give me the twelfth name? And these Twelve Attendants, were they an evil faction like the ten from Sanguo Yanyi? And all serving Zhang Rang?

Answer by Rafe de Crespigny:

In Hou Han shu 78/68, page 2534 of the Beijing punctuated edition, the twelve marquises are listed out: Zhang Rang, Zhao Chong, Xia Yun, Guo Sheng, Sun Zhang, Bi Lan, Li Song, Duan Gui, Gao Wang, Zhang Gong, Han Kui and Song Dian. The one that it missing in your list is Zhao Chong, who was a close associate of Zhang Rang.

The search is made more difficult because Zhang Rang and Zhao Chong are listed only by their given names, so the list doesn't show up if you are searching for the full name of Zhang Rang.

I think this was the first time that twelve eunuchs were named as Regular Attendants - the highest rank possible, and close to that of a minister. Before this the limit seems to have been ten. The marquisates seem to have been a bonus.

I suspect it was indeed something of a clique, with Zhang Rang and Zhao Chong in the leading roles - they appear as the two main protagonists in the account of the eunuchs relating to this period. But "serving" may be too strong a term. There is a general tendency in the history to lump all the eunuchs together [except the "good" eunuch Lv Qiang], but they were individuals, and probably had each their own agenda.

Question Two, about Zhang Jue

And my last question is about Zhang Jue, in my opinion a very interesting character, I always liked him because I thought he defeated Dong Zhuo, a talented fighter, but in your latest book you said Jue was ill at the time of Zhuo's attack and Zhang Liang fought him instead. What made you change your mind on this? And are there any details on this fight?

Answer by Rafe de Crespigny:

As to Zhang Jue: we cannot be sure how much he took personal command of his troops - he was primarily the spiritual leader and instigator of the rebellion. It appears, however, that the initial victories against Zhang Jue were won by Lu Zhi, but Lu Zhi was disgraced because of the eunuch's slander. Dong Zhuo then took his place, presumably in the early summer, and attempted to follow up Lu Zhi's success. He was not successful - very possibly because the rebels were now concrntrated in a stronghold rather than spreading out across the field; and also perhaps because the imperial troops had lost some morale after Lu Zhi had been so badly treated. Then in the eighth month Huangfu Song was given command - basically replacing Dong Zhuo - but also bringing more troops with him. By this time Zhang Jue had been taken ill, so Zhang Liang was in charge of the defence, and he gained some success even against Huangfu Song and the larger army. It was not until the tenth month that Huangfu Song succeeded in destroying the final resistance, and by that time Zhang Jue was dead and buried - they dug up his corpse to desecrate it. Great stuff!! [I particularly like the "Capital Observatory" story: making a pile of heads [capital] high enough to see the capital, Luoyang!!!]

19 December 2010

Question about Huang Yueying

I am struggling to find any information about Huang Chengyin's daughter (Zhuge Liang's wife). I was hoping that perhaps you know of any English sources that might help me learn more about her? Is it true that some of her words survived history (Wikipedia suggests this)?

Answer by Rafe de Crespigny

I know virtually nothing of Huang Chengyin's daughter, except that the Xiangyang jijiu zhuan by Xi Zuochi of the fourth century, quoted by Pei Songzhi, says that he persuaded Zhuge Liang to take her by saying that although she was very ugly she had ability to match his. I don't think there is anything more reliable about her.

12 January 2011

Question about Yellow Turbans Boning and Zhongning

I've been reading through most of your great tome A Biographical Dictionary of Later Han to the Three Kingdoms and read the biographies of Liang Boning and Liang Zhongning (among many others). Now, there is something that caught my attention. I've searched the internet using their hanzi and I always end up with the following sentence from HHS 58/48

"注[九]續漢書曰：「燮軍斬賊三帥卜巳、張伯、梁仲寧等，功高為封首。」"

For as far as I can tell (I don't speak Chinese, I just use Wiktionary.org :-P ), I think this sentence mentions Zhang Bo, Bu Si and Liang Zhongning, but not Liang Boning. Whenever I search the net I never find them both in one and the same sentence. It's always either one of them. So I was wondering, could Boning and Zhongning actually be one and the same person? Their names are a little identical and the sentence also says Fu Xie was recommended for enfeoffment for defeating three Yellow Turban leaders, not four. It's just a small detail and Liang Boning and Zhongning didn't do anything special, but, I'm just curious :-P

Answer by Rafe de Crespigny

I'm sorry to say, however, that I have obviously made a mistake about Liang Boning: no such person is recorded anywhere.

I'm not sure how the error occurred, but I suspect I combined the given name of Zhang Bo and the corret Liang Zhongning, and produced a third - non-existent - person. I am slightly reassured to see that I did not lose Zhang Bo altogether.

Incidentally, IF someone called Liang Boning had existed, he could not have been the same person as Liang Zhongning. Bo is a character often used for the eldest son of a family, and zhong is used for a second or later son. So although the names are indeed similar, Liang Boning would have been the elder brother of Liang Zhongning.

14 May 2011

Question One, about Meng Huo

I've never seen you acknowledge the existence of Nanman King Meng Huo, though I found out he is mentioned in two sources used by Pei Songzhi. On the other hand, most of your work covers the Later Han period (until 220), and Meng rebelled in 225, so perhaps that's why he hasn't appeared in any of your works yet (at least not in the ones I read). So, I am wondering, do you think he really existed? I find his 7 defeats are hard to believe, but does that make him fictional? And can you tell me (if you want) a little bit about the campaign against the Nanman and other southern tribes? It's hard to find information on it...

Answer by Rafe de Crespigny

I know really rather little of the southern campaigns of Zhuge Liang, though I am quite prepared to believe that he did defeat a local leader called Meng Huo.The detailed account of the campaigns in the Romance is probably grossly exaggerated, but the core is no doubt correct. And my reason for not mentioning Menghuo is indeed that he was recorded as active after 220 - have to stop somewhere.

I had a quick look at Wikipedia for Meng Huo.. Interesting to see that they think he is fictional - but I find no reason to doubt that there was a person of that name. Wikipedia notes that huo means captured, which makes the name look suspicious - but it he was a non-Chinese his name could have sounded like that and the Chinese then chose a humiliating character to transcribe it with - like Europe being Ouzhou the "vomiting continent" or the Xiongnu being "slaves" nu. There does not, however, seem to be anything solid about the campaigns themselves - it was all a bit of a sideshow compared with trying to get north across the Qin Ling and capture the Wei valley.

Question Two, about a new Biographical Dictionary

Will you write a Biographical Dictionary of Three Kingdoms and Western Jin?

Answer by Rafe de Crespigny

Someone should indeed do a Biographical Dictionary of Western Jin, but it won't be me. The period is far less well known than Later Han and Three Kingdoms, and I found writing Three Kingdoms and Western Jin quite a stretch. There is now a proposal to redo volume two of the Cambridge history, and that will certainly help.

7 October 2012

Question about barbarian/foreign names in Chinese

I've noticed that many bandit and, especially, barbarians' names are written different in many works and websites. For example the fictional Nanman Dong Tuna, Ahui Nan, Dailai Dongzhu, Lady Zhu Rong, Jinhuan Sanjie, Hua Man, etc are also seen as being written without any spaces (Dongtuna, Ahuinan, Dailaidongzhu , Zhurong, Jinhuansanjie). Why is that? Don't they have a given and surname? I know that Lady Zhurong and Dailai Dongzhu are brother and sister, but there is no surname to indicate that and Meng Huo's daughter is always called Huaman, instead of Meng Huaman. On the other hand though, the hanzi for 'Dong' in Dong Tuna is 董, which is a surname (Dong 董 Zhuo). So, kinda confusing. I'm hoping you can shed some light on this?

Answer by Rafe de Crespigny

On the question of non-Chinese names, I don't believe that there is any really good answer. For my part, I have adopted a system of running the sounds together for Xiongnu and for Qiang, but generally separating them for people further south: so, for example, Nangzhiyasi of the Xiongnu and Mitang of the Qiang, and Meng Huo as you have it.

There is no particularly good reason for this, except that Xiongnu names are very long, and it gets cumbersome to divide them, while I have a vague feeling that non-Chinese in the south were sightly more incorporated into China.

The problem is, of course, that the Chinese were not particularly interested in the details of such alien names, and their transcriptions are not all that great anyway. Wang Mang persuaded the Shanyu Nangzhiyasi to style himself simply Zhi - at least in correspondence with the Chinese court - but what he actually called himself in the Xiongnu language is really impossible to tell.

As to the Qiang, there seems to have been some relationship reflected by shared sounds: so that Dianyu was the father of Dongyu and of Miyu, and Miyu's son was named Mitang; but this is not really a surname system. [Perhaps one should recognise that surnames are used in the West and also in China, but not all cultures have them. After all, though the Romans had clan names, it took quite a while for surnames to develop in the medieval West, and the system is not obvious in Indonesia.]

The main point I would suggest is that the Chinese were rendering these barbarian names for their own purposes, and they were not very interested in the non-Chinese point of view. The Dong in Dong Tuna may have been chosen to fit a Chinese format, but doesn't necessarily tell you what the man was called jkn his own language. As a personal example, my full surname is Champion de Crespigny: I don't use the Champion for normal purposes, but when I first started studying Chinese I chose the surname 張 for the phonetic approximation - and because I like the look of the character - which is ok for writing in Chinese, but is not much help for my real name in the West!

27-30 April 2013

About Baiguans in Pei Songzhi's annotations

1. We've found a lot of Baiguans. (百官名, 晉百官表, 晉武帝百官名, 咸熙元年百官名, 晉百官志) and we can't help but think they're all one and the same or that some of them are chapters from one of them. They, bar one, seem to be about Jin (or the year 264, the last year before Jin). What do you think of these titles?

About Xiandi zhuan in Pei Songzhi's annotations

2. We found a Xiandi zhuan 獻帝傳 in the Book of Wei 1 ( 《獻帝傳》載詔曰：「自古帝王，雖號稱相變，) but did that really exist? We don't think it was allowed to write a 傳 instead of a 紀 for an Emperor. Perhaps it was a miswriting for or part of the Xiandi ji 獻帝紀?

Answer by Rafe de Crespigny

I suspect that zhuan is miswritten for ji. So does Lv Bi: SGZJJ 1:105a.

About Han Ling-Xian erdi ji

3. About the Xiandi ji and Lingdi ji 靈帝紀 by Liu Ai 劉艾. In a footnote in your Generals of the South (chapter 9) you also mention a Han Ling-Xian erdi ji 漢靈獻二帝紀 also by Liu Ai. Now we think that the Lingdi ji and Xiandi ji may be chapters or something like that of the Han Ling-Xian erdi ji (and that that was actually the text Pei had at his disposal, and thus the text we should put in the list). Is there anything known about the erdi ji? It doesn't seem to get much mention in English works and Google doesn't know much about it either.

Answer by Rafe de Crespigny

I am pretty sure that some editions combined Liu Ai's Lingdi ji and the Xiandi ji [or zhuan, as above] into a single work with two sections, with a title which may be rendered as "Chronicle of the Two Han Emperors Ling and Xian."

Two questions about ji 集 in Pei Songzhi's annotations

4. We noticed that Pei cited a lot of collected works (ji 集), but at the same time he also cited the individual works within those ji. For example the Zhuge Liang ji is cited about 10 times, but the Chushi biao and Gongwen shang Shangshu among others were also cited by him. What does this mean? Does it mean that Pei cited the original Chushi biao? Or the one Chen Shou editted/annotated/commented/whatever-he-did-with-it-if-anything for Zhuge Liang ji?

Answer by Rafe de Crespigny As above, I think we must assume that Pei Songzhi sometimes identified individual works by an author, but sometimes referred more generally to the ji "Collected Works."

5. Do you know if the collected works of Cao Zhi, Chen Si Wang ji, were available to Pei Songzhi? In SGZ we only found the individual poems. We cant find much info on this ji. We only found few links on Google, but they indicate that it was made during the Ming Dynasty (or in any case not available to Pei as a collection). And what about the Cao Gong ji and Wang Can ji? Because we don't really know what to do with these ji and the individual works (such as Baoshang ling 褒賞令 and Congjun shi 從軍詩) by these men...

Answer by Rafe de Crespigny Similarly, ji simply indicates collected works. I don't think there is much one can do except say that Pei Songzhi sometimes used the general terems for whatever colletion he may have had to hand, but on occasion preferred to cite individual items by specific name. To take a comparatively modern example, suppose someone wanted to refer to the quotation "To be or not to be:" you could identify it as a quote from Shakespeare [i.e his collected works] or you could refer specifically to Hamlet. Does this make sense?

Translating some titles

6. Can you think of a translation for these titles? 崇有論, 貴無論, 公文上尚書, 辨亡論, 丁亥令 and 議祀厲殃事?

Answer by Rafe de Crespigny
a. 崇有論 and 貴無論 are two philosophical works. They are referred to by Pei Songzhi, but not quoted by him. So they should not appear in an index such as you are creating. For the record, however, 貴無論 was written by the neo-Taoist philosopher Wang Bi (226-249), and the title may I think be rendered as "Essay on the Value of Non-Being." 崇有論 was written by Pei Wei 裴? (267-300) in opposition to Wang Bi's approach, and I would suggest "Essay in Praise of Being." A good fast source is the chapter by Demiéville in the Cambridge History of China volume 1 at 830-832, though Demiéville has the title as "Justification of Yu [ie You]."
b. 公文上尚書: the full title of this piece, as it appears in Pei Songzhi's commentary at SGZ 44:1000, is [諸葛]亮 公 文上尚書. It's a memorial to his emperor about the incompetence of the general Li Yan. Achilles Fang translates it in part, and refers to the document as "Zhuge Liang's official communication to the office of shangshu." That would be ok, bearing in mind that gong is a courtesy designation and shangshu is the title of the imperial secretariat. I would probably have it as "the text of the memorial presented to the Secretariat by Zhuge Liang."
c. 辨亡論: "An Essay 論 on Reasons 辨 for the Fall 亡 [of the state/empire of Wu]" written by Lu Ji 陸 機, formerly a subject of that state: SGZ
d. 丁亥令: I render as 令 "proclamation;" an edict 命 ming is issued by an emperor, but Cao Cao used ling for his official statements. Dinghai is one of the sixty-cycle days. The 丁亥令 was issued by Cao Pi on that day in the second month of 220 [before he had taken the imperial title]. I would describe it as "the dinghai proclamation."
e. 議祀厲殃事: tricky. I, context at SGZ 2:83, think it is best understood as referring to a discussion 議 by the Master of Writing Lu Yu 盧毓 [member of the Secretariat] on the subject of sacrifices to seek good fortune. It was part of a memorial [here as 奏 zou], and is not, strictly speaking, the name of a particular text. Maybe refer to it as a memorial by Lu Yu.

About Chen Shu in Pei Songzhi's annotations

7. Who was Chen Shu 陳術? The author of 益部耆舊傳雜記.

Answer by Rafe de Crespigny

Following a rather complex argument in Lv Bi at SGZJJ 31/Shu 1:7b, I think that Chen Shu was writing in the first half of the third century, perhaps an elder contemporary of Chen Shou, and that Chen Shou extracted some of his work. They were different people, but nothing ore is known of Chen Shu.

27 October 2013

About reigncolours

Rafe added his answers inbetween the indentions

1. About reigncolours and Powers (Wǔxíng). I know that Han ruled through the Power Fire and reigned Red, Wei and Wu ruled through the power of Earth and reigned Yellow, and I assume Liu Bei went with Fire for his (Shu-)Han. Based on the cycle of the Five Powers I guess Jin had ruled through the Power of Metal with the colour White/Silver and the Yellow Turbans and Yuan Shu's Zhong also picked Earth/Yellow (please correct me if I'm wrong with any of them).

Answer by Rafe de Crespigny

It appears that Qin claimed Water/black, in conquest-succession to the Fire of Zhou, but Former Han were all over the place: first Water [continuing from Qin] and then probably Earth in 104 BC [conquest from Qin]. Michael wrote to me the other day that "Personally I see no evidence for W Han having chosen to be under Fire’s blessing ." It was basically Wang Mang who got all excited about the changing of the Five Powers and claimed that his Earth was succeeding the Fire of Han - this on the basis of creation-succession (Fire makes ashes=Earth). When Guangwu reaffirmed Fire for his restored dynasty as a way to cancel out Wang Mang's usurpation. Burchard Mansvelt Beck has some more about this in the Cambridge history at 360-362.

I am sure you are right about Liu Bei and Shu-Han sticking to Fire/red - they pretty well had to. It seems to have been generally agreed that Earth would succeed Fire: hence Yellow Turbans, and Wei and Wu - both the latter took reign titles with yellow in them, Huangchu and Huangwu.

I don't know what Jin used, or even if anyone was making much fuss about it by then, but I suspect that you are right about Metal: at the beginning of the first century Guangwu's rival in Sichuan Gongsun Shu had claimed that Metal succeeded Earth - so he accepted Wang Mang - and Metal was also identified with the west, which was where he was.

But my question is; what does it mean to be associated with, or "rule through" a certain power aside from being associated with corresponding colour? I guess the colours would've been used for armour, banners, and the like? But what about the Power? If Han ruled through Fire, so what? Would it be a "theme" for the Dynasty? Or would the characteristics of the element serve as a guideline for as how the Emperor should rule? (just wild speculation)

Answer by Rafe de Crespigny

I think my best answer would indeed be "So what!" Han does appear to have used red, but some of that is because Liu Ji?Bang, Emperor Gao, was described as the Son of the Red God, who had killed the Son of the White God [HS 1A:7; Dubs, HFHD I, 34-35]; but that was another cycle. I doubt it had any effect on the style of government.

And speaking of which; did Former and Later Han both rule through Fire? And what about Western and Eastern Jin? Both Metal? And Wang Mang's Xin?

Answer by Rafe de Crespigny

See above.

About Dynasty-names

2. Hanzis as names for Dynasties. When Cao Pi became Emperor his Dynasty was called 魏. He didn't choose that name. His father held the title King of Wei, which was inherited by Pi, and the next step after King is Emperor. I wonder, but who picked 'Wei' in the title King of Wei? Did Cao Cao? Or was it picked for him? And why 'Wei'? I looked 魏 up on en.wiktionary.org but that site says the character 魏 doesn't have a meaning other than being a surname and the name of two dynasties. Then what's the sense of picking 魏 as a King or Dynasty title? (I have the feeling I'm overlooking something obvious, or maybe there's just no special thought behind the name). I guess the above story also applies to 晉. Sima Zhao was King of Jin, thus Sima Yan became Emperor of Jin.

Answer by Rafe de Crespigny

Wei was a late Zhou state [Warring States period] but gave its name to a commandery of Han. Cao Cao made his capital at Ye, chief city of Wei, and so chose that territory for his ducal and then royal state. He was powerful enough to write his own ticket.

Jin had likewise been a state of Zhou, but in the Chunqiu period and earlier; it was the division of Jin between three rival clans to form Han 韓, Zhao and Wei that is regarded as the beginning of the Warring States period. There was, however, no commandery unit known as Jin during the Han or Wei. The fief taken by Sima Zhao was created for him, and it roughly covered the central north of the empire, in much the same area as ancient Jin.

But what about 漢, 吳 and 仲? Why those hanzis as names for Dynasties? 漢 means Chinese people. So Han is "Dynasty for the People" or "The People's Dynasty"? Wu could be after the commandery. Zhong.. dunno. Do you have any theories behind it? I would like there be a nice, well-thought reason for those hanzis to be picked as names, but I have the feeling that might not be so.

Answer by Rafe de Crespigny

The empire of Han took its name from the fact that after the fall of Qin the future Emperor Gao was named King of Han, with his state based on the upper Han River in present-day northern Sichuan, about modern Hanzhong.

Han meaning "Chinese people" is back to front: the name was taken from the dynasty as "men of Han," not the other way round. [In south China there was a tendency to call ethnic Chinese "men of Tang" as opposed to the indigenous; Tang was the period of greatest expansion.]

Wu was also the name of an ancient state AND Sun Quan was first enfeoffed as King of Wu by Cao Pi.

Zhong for the name of Yuan Shu's attempted dynasty is indeed curious. I have a note about it in my To Establish Peace [currently being revised]:

Zhong 仲 is explained by the commentators as the name of the imperial state established by Yuan Shu, comparable to the name Han for that of the Liu family, or the name Cheng 成, taken by the warlord Gongsun Shu in the region of present-day Sichuan at the beginning of Later Han: e.g. HHS 13/3:535.

HHS 75/65 TC says that the name was sometimes written Chong 沖. It seems most probable, however, that the style chosen by Yuan Shu was Zhong, which has the meaning of "younger" and hence implied a courteous succession from Han; the later state of Shu-Han, founded by Liu Bei in the west, was sometimes described by later historians (though not by Liu Bei and his followers) as Ji-Han. The character chong, on the other hand, would indicate a young ruler still in his minority. That would not have flattered Yuan Shu's pretensions, and it may have been a deliberate corruption by his enemies.

The founder of Han took the name of his state from the kingdom with which he had been enfeoffed after the fall of Qin, and Gongsun Shu evidently took his dynastic name from his capital, Chengdu. It does not appear, however, that Yuan Shu had any association with a place called Zhong or Chong.

There is, incidentally, disagreement about whether the Xin dynasty of Wang Mang got its name from his sometime marquisate of Xindu 新都 [HS 10:319; Dubs, HFHD II, 401] or was chosen to mean "New:" compare Dubs, HFHD III, 257 note 36.2 and Bielenstein in the Cambridge history at 231. I incline to the former opinion, but there was certainly serendipity.

About Yellow Turbans and the number thirty-six

3. About the Yellow Turbans. A while ago I read something about the number 36 having a certain meaning in Daoïsm and it got me thinking about the 36 Divisions made by Zhang Jue and his brothers in 184. Apparently, in Daoïsm, when one dies he/she needs to pass through several levels. There are 10 Hell-levels and 9 layers of Heaven, which consist of 28 levels. Once one gets passed these levels, there are 4 extra levels for the spiritually advanced. Above that, there are 3 more levels for dwelling spirits of immortals, and finally there is the highest sphere where the Dao exists in its purest form and where the sacred celestial Scriptures reside. 10 + 28 + 4 + 3 + 1 = 46. 46 minus the 10 Hell-levels = 36! In that highest sphere is found the Jade Capital of Mystery Metropolis from which the Three Venerables rule the universe. Those "Three Venerables" could be Zhang Jue, Bao and Liang! Perhaps it's a bit far-fetched? But the numbers match. If it's true then I like the Zhang brothers even more. They put some nice detail and thought (and love?) in their school and rebellion. Did you ever speculate about the number 36? Or other minor details of the Turbans? What do you think about the above theory?

Answer by Rafe de Crespigny

36 has long been a sacred/auspicious number in China, and I am sure that the 36 divisions set up by Zhang Jue were chosen for that reason. People are always playing around with numbers, whether its the Christian trinity or the Number of the Beast in Revelations [later applied to Napoleon!]. Emperor Gao of Han is said to have had 72 moles on his skin - I wonder who counted - and 72 is twice 36 so possibly even better!

Incidentally, "turban" is not a good translation. The relevant character jin 巾 means simply cloth, and I am pretty sure that it was a plain strip of yellow cloth bound about the forehead: I have seen such strips in Chinese funerals, and they were worn by Japanese suicide bombers in WWII. Yukio Mishima imitated them: http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.lucadelbaldo.com/art/d/822-6/yukio_mishima&imgrefurl=http://www.lucadelbaldo.com/art/work/Art%2BCritics%2Band%2BArt%2BHistorians%2BPortraits/yukio_mishima.html&h=1280&w=1003&sz=492&tbnid=Yu6RBH7giOIE6M:&tbnh=81&tbnw=63&zoom=1&usg=__1aMUclpCNq1Zh6DqEq1-54NdhHc=&docid=AZfNekGWdFz4JM&sa=X&ei=6MptUrSFIMTRkwW0qIDoCQ&ved=0CI0BEP4dMA4

"Turbans," however, is generally accepted, and I have no hesitation about using that rendering.

Favourite scene in Romance

And lastly, after reading Romance of the Three Kingdoms and then reading the official histories of Han and TK, where there any fictitious stories in Romance that you were really sad or disappointed about when you learnt they weren't true? If so, which one(s)?

Answer by Rafe de Crespigny

I always liked the Oath in the Peach Garden in Chapter One of Romance.

In contrast, I am glad to bring Zhuge Liang down to size! His taunting of Zhou Yu leaves a bad taste.